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Goodbye, CtD (and WoD 1.0, in general)

I think fairgrove_u might be the last CtD game I run. At least, for quite a while.

I've had it with the WoD 1.0. I'm sick of the "The world is ending, and there's not a damn thing we can do, 'cause it'll end no matter what we do" schtick; the insistence that "every member of Group X must hate every member of Group Y," even among beings who should be working together (the Garou Concordiat, anyone?); the conflicting background stories masquerading as "mystery" - nothing should be a mystery to the GM; the lack of proper research into setting books (*cough* WoD: Tokyo *cough*); and the endless cookie-cutter repetition of the VtM clan template (are there 13 splats in every game?).

The past months have shown me just how flawed WoD 1.0 is. I really think the folks at White Wolf were on to something when they ended it a few years back. Maybe they realized it'd reached the end of its lifespan.

I'll probably keep my WoD 1.0 books, though. Who knows, I might play in one of those games again someday. But not for quite a while.

And I think I need some new icons if I'm not going to be running WoD 1.0 games....:)


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Mar. 20th, 2006 12:31 pm (UTC)
Have you checked out the second edition? It's got a lot to reccomend it.
Mar. 20th, 2006 12:36 pm (UTC)
The basic rulebook is sitting on the hard drive of one of our computers in PDF (I snatched it up when DriveThruRPG.com offered it free this past October); I'm intrigued with Werewolf: The Forsaken, but don't know if I want to shell out the dough for it just yet.

I'm having a lot of fun with the Unisystem stuff right now - lostsatyr and I just started a CJ Carella's WitchCraft game, and we're having a blast running it.
Mar. 20th, 2006 01:03 pm (UTC)
Lemme know if you sell your 1.0 books? I'd be interested in buying...
Mar. 20th, 2006 01:14 pm (UTC)
as tired as the old one is getting, I think I prefer it over the stuff from 2.0. At least I prefer it for Large scale LARPS. The new WOD is better for table top as you can design a great deal of customization into your games.

On the other hand if you want good research, dont use WW products. So far New Orleans and Hunting Ground Rockies were both extremely poorly done. I live in the area that they wrote up for HG Rockies, and the inaccuracies are pretty bad.
Mar. 20th, 2006 01:36 pm (UTC)
On the other hand if you want good research, dont use WW products. So far New Orleans and Hunting Ground Rockies were both extremely poorly done. I live in the area that they wrote up for HG Rockies, and the inaccuracies are pretty bad.

*nods* I've heard some stories from people who live in the U.K. about how inaccurate Isle of the Mighty (for CtD and MtA) was.
Mar. 20th, 2006 04:19 pm (UTC)
On the other hand, I think WoD: Chicago is better than the previous Chicago By Night's that got released. There are sections that aren't entirely accurate, but then other sections that are so dead on it took me on a trip down memory lane.

Mar. 20th, 2006 02:42 pm (UTC)
What games would you like to move on too?
Mar. 21st, 2006 01:43 am (UTC)
I'm seriously liking Unisystem right now. The hubby and I are running a regular tabletop game of CJ Carella's WitchCraft, and we'll be running a Buffy adventure at the local gaming con in April.

And we enjoy All Flesh Must Be Eaten, as well - at least, we've used the stuff from AFMBE supplements in other Unisystem games. :)

The hubby is quite taken with Dungeons & Zombies and Atlas of the Walking Dead, both of which are for AFMBE, but which have many, many wonderful things in them to use in other Unisystem games.
Mar. 21st, 2006 02:32 am (UTC)
I've owned All Flesh since the month it came out, but I never found a group to play with. You know by now, I think, what a zombie movie fan I am. :D
Mar. 20th, 2006 04:24 pm (UTC)
I'm going to chime in and say that WoD2.0 is (IMNSHO) a vast improvement over the old one. There are no longer any innate hatreds among the groups - Werewolves don't automatically hate vampires while shouting "Die Wyrmspawn!", and the sects in Vampire have to learn to live with one another in the same city, rather than constantly battle for supremacy.

They don't have a Changeling equivalent yet (though rumors abound). I think some people have worked on a house rules version of it somewhere in the world. And there is a group in Mage who are very fae-like.


Mar. 20th, 2006 04:26 pm (UTC)
This sounds a lot like the reasons that I left comics for several years...too much dark and gritty. I know how you feel, but if it's something that you really enjoy deep in your soul, you just take a break for a bit. Someone may come along and tweak the rules more to your liking. Or you may stumble across a group of people who really mesh with the way that you want to play, and rules be damned. All media tend to ebb and flow. Maybe it will be 10 years before you go back to WoD. Or you might never go back at all. It's all cool, though. You just concentrate on the things that you do enjoy, and life's enjoyment sorts itself out. ^.^
Mar. 20th, 2006 05:48 pm (UTC)
I was at the library the other day and they actually had a copy of the main rulebook to CHILL. After reading bleak, angsty White Wolf books for so many years it was really quite quaint and nostalgic.
Mar. 20th, 2006 06:50 pm (UTC)
I've heard that the new version is, at least with Vampire and Werewolf, way more dark and depressing than the original.

A longtime Vampire storyteller I know picked up the books and then ended up giving them away because he said if he ever had to run a game like that, he'd end up slitting his wrists. And this from someone who tended to run angsty storylines, and was OK with wraith... He said they basically seemed to try and drive the whole "damned" theme home with a sledgehammer and made it sound like vampires could never, ever, be happy for even one second. I didn't get that impression reading through it, but I basically just skimmed it, so I might have missed a lot.

There are a couple of things I do like about the new version, though - the lack of a single creation myth. Each sect has its own ideas about where vampires come from and no one really knows which if any of them is correct. Although I suppose that's an intensification of one of the things you were complaining about in 1.0.

Werewolves in the new version are also pretty much damned - cursed and hated by everything in creation, including pretty much the entire spirit world. There's no environmental or shamanic elements to it any more, just a whole lot of being hated for stuff that happened centuries before you were born. It seems like the least popular of the lot, so far.

Mage is the only one of three that looked at interesting to me.

Oh, and there's endless repetition of 5 splats instead of 13. :-) Although it's actually sort of 5 x 5 - with each one, there 5 clans/traditions/whatever and 5 organizations or belief systems, so I suppose you could argue it's really 25.

I do share some of your issues with WoD 1.0, but I'm not really convinced the new version is an improvement. Currently I'm enjoying running a Deliria game (have you played that yet?), still playing old WoD here and there, and looking about for new and interesting alternatives.
Mar. 21st, 2006 01:52 am (UTC)
Alternatives to WoD 1.0 (edited)
Have you seen CJ Carella's WitchCraft? It's a nice, solid system, with numerous similarities to WoD 1.0 - except things mesh much better - no futzing with Glamour vs. Gnosis vs. Quintessence, because it's a unified world.

The CJ Carella's WitchCraft rules are available as a free PDF on both DriveThruRPG.com and Eden Studios's website. If you like the old WoD, I'd say give CJ Carella's WitchCraft a try.
Mar. 21st, 2006 04:40 am (UTC)
Re: Alternatives to WoD 1.0 (edited)
Cool - sounds well worth checking out! I am downloading it as I type this... Thanks!
Mar. 21st, 2006 06:20 pm (UTC)
I hope you'll keep Fairgrove going for a while?
Mar. 22nd, 2006 09:48 pm (UTC)
I completely understand how you could be fed up with the cannon of 1.0. Heck, I haven't followed WW cannon in forever and I'm glad, they mess too much up. That said, I HATE, HATE, 2.0. I think they tried to had to make it "dark" and ended up making it campy and emo at the same time.
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The Geek Queen
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